Lose Weight fast

https://exipure.com/?hop=metrowynn

Monday, 11 September 2023

King Arthur meets Robin Hood

 Are the Robin Hood and Arthurian Legends connected ....?


It might not seem so obvious, but on closer Scrutiny it looks like they are. Arthur obviously goes back to ancient times, sometimes pre-Christian and often at the same time the Romans withdrew from Britain. Indeed, some believe he was part-Roman. But why did later Kings and Queens hark back to him, and why was this concurrent with when the famous Robin Hood Stories were set? 

In the Search for a real Robin Hood or King Arthur there are many Candidates as we have seen via the myriad Books, Documentaries and Academic Researchers over the years. Some are quite valid, and a few probably very real - but it's not just about who they might have been, it's also what they represent, and that's far more important.

Historical Figures appear in Timelines and Biographies since History began after all, but do they represent anything?

The Arthurian Legend in its more recognisable Form appeared in the 12th Century when Chretien - under the Patronage of Eleanor of Aquitaine - wrote his Stories on the Subject. 

This was a time when Britain was in tumult. Henry 2nd was at war with his own Sons, who were at war with each other, while Eleanor even endured imprisonment at their Hands. The Country needed someone to unify it.

This wasn't that long after a Civil War called "The Anarchy" wracked the Country - when King David of Scotland supported Matilda's Claim to the Throne against the usurperous King Stephen. In what looks like a throwback to another Age her Claim was like that of a Celtic Queen, a latter Day Boudicca or anglo-celtic Maeve, legitimate regardless of Gender, unlike Stephens Patrimony. And that was the Problem, her Lineage, although far more representative, with Malcolm of Scotland and Margaret of Wessex in the Mix, was matrilineal. Matilda doing Girl Power 1000 years before the Spice Girls. Stephens Claim might have ticked all the Patrilineal Boxes, but none of his Ancestors were from this Side of the English Channel.

She prevailed in the end, Stephen died and her Son became Henry 2nd, the first Plantagenet King, but one from her Bloodline. What made him even more significant on a much wider Scale was his matrilineal Bloodline leading all the way to Kenneth MacAlpin - the founder of Alba/Scotland and Alfred of Wessex. This was through his Mother - and then Mathilda of Scotland, Margaret of Wessex and then to Edward the Exile and his Rus Wife Agatha of Kiev.

Kenneth MacAlpin was crucial in this because of his strategic Marriage to a Brythonic Princess of Alt Clut (Strathclyde) which produced a Gaelic/Pictish/Brythonic Heir called Eochaid who would rule Alba after him.

Enter Henry's Grandson; Arthur of Brittany.

Who better to be a "once and future King" than a Descendant of both the Norman Angevin Plantagenets and the Britons, Scots and Saxons? What's even better was how he was called Arthur, Son of Geoffrey Plantagenet and Margaret of Huntingdon's Daughter - Constance, also descended Alfred and an even more concentrated descent from MacAlpin via his Grandparents. He would be a solid bridge between the Kings of Scotland and those of England.

While Richard was next in line after the deposed King Henry the younger, I suspect Eleanor thought her oldest surviving Son wouldn't last very long as he spent more time on the Battlefield than at Court. And very little time in Britain.

Arthur was even nominated by Richard as his Heir.

Thus, the next in line from him was Arthur, and what better way to promote him than to have the Courtly Poet of the Day write epic Stories about him! A "once and future King" who would unite the Realm!

Sponsored by one of the most powerful People in medieval Europe - Arthur's Grandmother Eleanor of Aquitaine.

The problem was that while he was the legal Heir should anything happen to Richard, he was also very young when his Uncle was killed at Chalus, being only 12. We are told the King reluctantly chose John as his Heir for that reason, but others believe he was designated as Arthur's Regent until the rightful Heir was old enough to wear the Crown.

John immediately imprisoned his Nephew and In the Chaos that ensued during his Reign Arthur must have looked increasingly like a Threat. Someone who might bring unity to the Realm that he obviously couldn't. Arthur had the stronger Claim via his Mother's very anglo-british/scottish Lineage, and John had him murdered, although it's felt he did the dirty deed himself. Arthur effectively disappeared.

The thing was, Arthur being the Great Grandson of Henry of Scotland meant John had killed someone who was also a Cousin or Nephew of an Earl of Huntingdon.

Sound familiar?

Enter Robin Hood

Myths and Legends aside there are several instances where actual History supports the Legend .....

The 1194 Siege of Nottingham.

David Earl of Huntingdon, with Ranulph of Chester (his future Brother in Law) and William Marshal were joined by the Armies of King Richard during the Siege of Nottingham Castle. Supporters of John were holed up there and after several days brutal Fighting finally surrendered. It was said Richard went hunting in Sherwood and met a certain Robin Hood. Could he and the Earl be one and the same?

After the King died and John took the Throne David's position became a difficult one. He was even said to have been outlawed for Debts and had huge Tracts of his English Estates seized by King John. In 1212 he was accused of a Plot to assassinate the King, and while this was never proved one of those who was was future Magna Carta Surety Robert Fitzwalter. He was also obliged to side with his Nephew King Alexander of Scotland during the Barons War that would lead to Magna Carta, as did Llewellyn of Gwynedd.

While David might have supported Johns Coronation in 1199 - probably to stave off any anticipated backlash against his Actions in Nottingham years before - all this happened anyway, and as it continued and facts became known about the fate of his Cousin/Nephew Arthur at Johns Hands the Legend starts taking root as maybe there was retribution somewhere in his Motives.

Quite a lot of very real historical Reasons why he would be regarded as an Outlaw fighting a Prince who became King John.

This could be bolstered by how Arthur might have been a better King instead of the Misery, Chaos and Disaster of John's Reign. Arthur was closely related  to the Capetian Kings in France and this might have prevented the disastrous Wars John had fought with them.

Then, of course David was also the Ancestor of a certain Robert Earl of Annandale - who we all know as Robert the Bruce.

But all that was a long way off, and in the interim we had the second Barons War and the appearance of Simon De Montfort.

At first the years after John seemed comparatively peaceful and Magna Carta was re-established. It finally looked like the Tumult had ended. Unfortunately Henry 3rd wanted to install his own Network of feudal Rulers and either own Britain's Castles himself or install loyal Barons in them. This effectively undid the Agreement made with the Charter at Runnymede and it's revised and updated version a few years later.

The 1258 Provisions of Oxford attempted to establish monarchial Accountability with the Barons which Henry reneged on, prompting the War, which De Montfort won in 1264. This was when we began seeing the emergence of a certain Edward Longshanks - who would be Edward 1st.

Prince Edward finally defeated De Montfort at the Battle of Evesham, rescuing his Father from Captivity and De Montfort was drawn and quartered, his Remains sent to supporters as a warning. Some of these retreated into the Forests and became Outlaws, one of whom was a Yeoman called Roger Godberd.

There was another Character called Robert who was Friends with a Sheriff of Nottingham called Reginald De Grey until they fell out and he had to go into hiding as another Outlaw. And on it went, with John and his Henchmen from the Story being replaced by Edward and his. 

Until the Scottish War of Independence, William Wallace and Robert the Bruce.... hence the occasionally Scottish Claims to a Robin Hood..... reinforced by some Welsh, due to their Battles with the very plantagenet Edwards. The Earls of Huntingdon being Kings and Princes of Scotland after all.

Then there were the Tudors .. or Tewdwrs!

These People really could claim British Kingship through their very British Ancestry, going back to the Prince's of Gwynedd and Deheubarth. Even after Edwards conquest of Wales they remained very aware of their Welsh Heritage. Owen Tudor - the progenitor of the Line - had Family who fought for Owain Glyndwr. He became a Courtier and finally married Catherine of Valois, Henry Vths Widow. With her he had a Son called Edmund and he had a Son called Henry. More of him in a Moment. 

There was a time when Owen went into outlawry after Catherine died and he lost the Protection of the Dowager Queen. He was pardoned by King Henry Vl, reinstated with a Pension and Position in Court and given the Job of running an Estate in Denbigh. Another familiar Robin Hood Theme, the Outlaw pardoned by a King and given Title and Position.

The War of the Roses and the arrival of Henry Tudor. 

He was the Son of Edmund Tudor who was Henry Vl half Brother, so a blood Relative of the King. Being a Descendant of John of Gaunt via his Mother made him part of the House of Lancaster who fought a brutal and bloody War with the House of York for nothing less than the Throne of England and Scotland.

This culminated in the Battle of Bosworth and the defeat of King Richard 3rd. Henry became King

The War was terrible, engulfing the whole Country and forcing Nobles to take sides. It left the Country in a very parlous State with deep Scars in its Psyche.

Henry was very aware of this and rather like Eleanor two Centuries earlier wanted a Successor who would unify the Country and particularly the Houses of Lancaster and York.

Thus, his oldest Son, through his Wife Elizabeth of York was born. His name? Arthur. Because of his very Welsh Ancestry the young Prince had a better Claim to the Title Prince of Wales than Edward 2nd had - and a more legitimate Claim to the Throne.

Unfortunately, despite a healthy, happy and promising early Life with his Wife Catherine of Aragon he was struck down and died of Tuberculosis at Ludlow, Shropshire in 1502. He left no Heir so his younger Brother Henry would become Henry 8th.

The many Wives and contested Children of King Henry are common Knowledge, so is how he raised both the most hated Queen of the Realm and it's most beloved. But before that there was his very own King Joffrey.... Edward Vl .... who, like the young King in "Game of Thrones" was a Tyrant drunk on Power and wasn't really fit to rule. 

Mary 1 - despite fanfare and being an end to the terrible but brief Reign of her half Brother - rapidly became even worse and earned the Epitaph "Bloody Mary". People were certainly glad to see the Back of her and her half Sister appeared as a very welcome Change as Elizabeth became 1st of her name.

Unfortunately, North of the Border another Mary wasn't having any of it and conspired with Spain to remove her. Mary Stuart, in a fit of Pique, also banned the Robin Hood Plays, so when she was finally thwarted the Stage was set for Anthony Munday to immortalise Robin as the Earl of Huntingdon - harking back to earlier Battles against Tyranny - and the great Bard himself mentioning him in his Shakespearean Plays. 

So when you read the Robin Hood Stories, examine the Era they took place, and see that a common Thread wends its way through them all - you begin to realise that there is indeed a Connection between our two most famous Legends - Robin Hood and King Arthur. 

The most popular Theme of all is how Robin the Outlaw fights for the legitimate King, or Queen, against any who would usurp him or her.

Something we have seen many times in our History, from David's support of Matilda in the 12th Century, his Grandsons support of the Lionheart, the attempts to install a couple of Arthur's to the Throne and bring Peace to the Realm, and maybe even those who worked to support and protect Queen Elizabeth 1st.


7 comments:

  1. The Legend of Excalibur..

    It was never made apparent where Sir Bedywr threw Excalibur into the Lake, which was adopted most famously by Alfred Lord Tennyson (Idyls of the King) and Thomas Malory (Morte Arthur).

    Many have cited Glastonbury or Avalon as the likely Candidate, after all "the Isle of Avalon" got it's Name from being surrounded by Water - as were most of the Somerset Levels in those days.

    But is it......?

    Very few References put the Arthurian Stories in South West England at all, while many of the Characters are more associated with the North. Rheged - the Realm of both Urien and Owain - corresponds with what is modern Cumbria and Lancashire, along with some of what is now Galloway in Scotland. There are the obvious North Wales Associations, and the various Nobles of what was the Hen Ogledd or Old North.

    So where did Bedywr return the Sword to the Lady of the Lake?

    In Welsh "Llyn" means Lake, thus Llyn or Lake Padarn could have been a quite probable Venue. Further north Aberfawr in Anglesey (Ynnis Mon) hosted the mythological Wedding Feast of Bran Fendigaidds Sister Branwen to the Irish King Matholwych, while Bran first appears at Harlech. Thus a substantial geographical Location is mentioned. Arthur makes appearances in the Mabinogion too.

    Another Feature of North Wales is the Llyn Peninsula - a large land mass that juts into the Irish Sea. Just off of that is Bardsey Island, an ancient Pagan and Christian Holy Place and burial Ground to an alleged 20,000 Saints. Famed for its Apples it has been alternatively called Ynnis Affalach or Isle of Apples, an ancient Tree still grows there.

    According to the Story, after the Battle of Camlann the mortally wounded Arthur is ferried across to the Isle of Avalon (Affalach) where he will rest until returning as the once and future King. He instructed Bedywr to throw the Sword (Excalibur) into the Lake - which he reluctantly does.

    Maybe all this happened, either on the Shores of Lake or Lynn Padarn (being the most prominent in the Region), or those of the Llyn Peninsula just before Arthur was transported to Bardsey Island. It is also thought whoever Merlin (a Title as much as Name) also went there after his Death.

    Even Tolkien had his Characters sail off "into the West" or "Undying Lands" the Citadel of Avalonne on Tol Erresea, while many Cultures - including ancient Egypt - had the Dead sailing into the afterlife. Maybe Arthur did the same thing as the throwing of the Sword formed an integral Part of the Funeral Rite.

    That would also be consistent with what is called a Votive Rite. Where a significant Object would be offered to a Lake, Stream, River or Sea in Celtic Belief Systems to invoke certain things. Weapons for Victory in War, Agricultural Implements for a good Harvest, Phallic/Feminine Symbols for Pro-creation etc. What more potent Symbol for the protection of Britain than the legendary Sword of its King?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Cont'd ....

    Thus, the Lake in the Arthurian Legend could be a Translation of the Cymraig Word "Llyn" which means Lake, and also the Llyn Peninsular. The Proximity of the Peninsular to the Isle of Apples, or Affalach (Bardsey) and how its nearest Lake - Llyn Padarn - is not just coincidence. That when Bedywr threw Excalibur into the "Lake" after the Battle of Camlann he could quite feasably have done it on the Shores of the Llyn Peninsular just before the mortally wounded Arthur (whoever he might have been) was taken to Bardsey Island to be interred.

    Called the burial Place of the Saints it's thought there are 20,000 Saints, Druids and Nobles buried there and an ancient Brythonic King being laid to rest there would be very consistent.

    The Fact that the Period it happened was when Britain was dominated by Cymraig as its main Language confirms this. Latin might have been spoken by any vestiges of Rome and some newly arrived Christian Clerics but a Language that was spoken by the Druids of Ynnis Mon (Anglesey) and it's Proximity to the Llyn Peninsular makes all this very probable.

    The Frenchification of the Story is due mainly to Elinore of Aquitaine's patronage of Chretien - who wrote the first widely read Account of the Legend. She was probably preparing the Angevin Empire for the Ascension of her Grandson - Arthur of Brittany to the Throne. Being Geoffrey Plantagenets oldest Son he was the legitimate Heir - and via his Mother Constance was also descended from the Picto-Brithonic Kings of the North and Alfred of Wessex.

    A sure-fire Candidate for a "once-and-future King" who could unite the Country at a time when Europe was fractured.

    In the real "Game of Thrones" it was no Coincidence Eleanor of Aquitaine and Henry llnd would marry off their next eldest Son to a Descendant of Margaret of Wessex. Henry the Younger had blotted his Copybook by rebelling against his Father and Richard seemed more interested in the Battlefield than the Court. Several Centuries up to that Era had seen a fragmented, feudal Europe and Britain go through turmoil and a complete lack of Direction.

    Because of his Lineage Arthur of Brittany could unite at least some of it, and this wouldn't be lost on the most powerful Woman of her, and many other, times.

    It should also be remembered that Brittany owes is Breton Language and Culture not to the Franks or Norman's but to the Cymraig speaking Britons who arrived there in the 5th Century, which merely reinforced all of this.

    Unfortunately her other Son, John had other Ideas and not only did he allegedly murder Arthur as his Regent he imprisoned his own Mother. We all know the rest, while why would our other famous Legend spend his Life pitted against Prince/King John and various Sheriff's of Nottingham?

    ReplyDelete
  3. One thing all this certainly isn't is a 1991 Film with that Song by Bryan Adams that was at #1 in the Charts for 16 Weeks.

    ReplyDelete
  4. While Magna Carta is probably the Worlds most famous legal Document - as was it's relaunched edition after King John died - the Regency Council for his Son - Henry lllrd - led by William Marshal draughted and enacted this .......

    The Charter of the Forest of 1217 was issued on November 6, 1217, by King Henry III's regency council to restore common people's access rights to royal forests.

    Key Background

    • Origin of Royal Forests: Introduced by William the Conqueror in the 11th century, royal forests eventually covered about one-third of southern England.

    • Draconian Rules: Strict Forest Law restricted local land use, grazing, timber, and hunting to protect royal game and finances, carrying severe penalties like blinding, mutilation, or heavy fines.

    • Pairing with Magna Carta: Issued alongside a reissued Magna Carta, the name "Magna Carta" (Great Charter) actually arose around this time to distinguish the main liberties document from its shorter "forest brother".

    Core Provisions

    • Restored Common Rights: Reinstated rights for free men to graze livestock (agistment and pannage), collect firewood (estover), and gather honey or use hawks.

    • Abolished Capital Punishment: Replaced the death penalty for killing royal deer with fines, imprisonment, or exile.

    • Land Use: Permitted free men to build mills, fish-ponds, or cultivate private land outside of covert areas.

    • Rolled Back Boundaries: Reduced the vast royal forest boundaries down to what they were under earlier reigns, removing wrongfully seized private lands (disafforestation).

    • Limitations: The rights primarily applied to free men and excluded unfree serfs or villeins.

    Legacy

    • Longevity: It remained on the English statute books for over 750 years until it was finally repealed by the Wild Creatures and Forest Laws Act 1971.

    • Environmental & Human Rights Impact: It is widely considered an early landmark in environmental law, natural resource protection, and common-use rights.

    What I'm saying here is our People were draughting Legislation as long ago as 1215-7 that was seen as so progressive it wasn't repealed and replaced until 1971.

    Looks like our People began the Process that would lead to Human Rights Centuries before the UN Convention, the European CHR, the Beverage Report or when the Observer began publishing Articles on the Subject in the early 1960's

    And how about it's influence on cultural depictions of the Legend?

    How many Films and TV Shows on the Subject - including "Robin of Sherwood" and the more recent BBC Series with Jonas Armstrong - start with a Poaching Scene in its first Episode? Even the MGM TV Series from last year does this while "The Adventures of Robin Hood" Series in the 1950's did it too.

    I seem to remember the 2010 Film with Russell Crowe starts with his Men returning from a hunting Trip.

    ReplyDelete
  5. And after further extensive Research the final Score is .......

    14 Magna Carta Surety Barons, William Marshal - the Worlds greatest Knight, a Candidate for Robin Hood (and even the BBC and HTV have portrayed that), Kenneth MacAlpin - the founder of Scotland - and all that came after, the Dunkeld Monarchs - including David 1st, Walter FitzAlan and the High Stewards of Scotland, Cunedda and his Votadini Warriors Ancestors and Gwynedd Nobility Descendants (including Maelgwyn. Rodhri Mawr, Owain Gwynedd and Llewellyn), Hywel Dda, Alfred of Wessex - one of Britain's most beloved Kings, Rurik and the Kievan Rus who married into England and France, none other than Charlemagne and the Wife of another Holy Roman Emperor, Eleanor of Aquitaine, the real Braveheart and Scotland's most famous King who won it's independence + William Burghley (Cecil), and "Strongbow" De Clare.

    There are lots of others and if I printed it all it would use up about 40 pages of A4.

    This was after an earlier Session that - unfortunately - suffered the pitfalls that can afflict Ancestry research.

    These can be caused by several things .......

    Algorithms that will splice together Names, dates or geographic Locations - not because they are actually connected but merely because they are similar. It's computing doing what People sometimes do when they conflate something for the same reason.

    Corrupt 19th Genealogists working for wealthy Industrialists eager to graft themselves onto some historical Figure for reasons of Prestige.

    Wishful thinkers in Countries like America or Canada - creating fictitious Ancestors who "went/fled to the Colonies". Easy to make up, very difficult to prove.

    Unfortunately, the earlier Research fell prey to a combination of all of these but after going back to square one so to speak we finally got the actual verifiable Story, and what we ended up with was far better and a lot more dynamic.

    The thing is. I'm wondering if anyone else had done some of this. but relied on the previous Work instead.

    Subsequently what they have had for years was wrong.

    So. sorry Folks - no Corbetts. no Mainwarings etc!

    The American Ancestry Factory ....

    It's very convenient how "the Colonies" can give you an Ancestor who apparently perished in the many Wars on the Continent up to and including the Civil War, or died in the Wilderness or on the Trails in the West. A bit too convenient and has been used many times.

    While doing this for example, I came across someone who was supposed to have settled in Oyster Bay. Long Island, who lost everything in the War of Independence as a Loyalist and whose Family finally returned to Britain.

    They didn't exist.

    There was another - which has appeared in Charts many times - similarly non existent but has been a notorious Creation by Geneaologists eager to connect Abraham Lincoln to all of this. He is, but via a completely different and verifiable Route, and far more distantly.

    Anyone who has used Charts showing them as an Ancestor when applying to join the Baronial Order of Magna Carta - a Society for Descendants of the Surety Barons - have had their Applications turned down for this reason.

    Unfortunately, given the Sloppiness found in Creative Economics when it comes to depictions of Historical Figures and Events there are probably stacks and decades of Work based on these Erroneous Claims. Because they are completely wrong they're not worth the Film or Video Tape they were made with.

    ReplyDelete
  6. What I particularly like about our Story is how we effectively jumped Ship before the Rot set in and things began going wrong.

    The last Convergence was a Marriage in 1687, after which the line began filtering into regular People. I might have all that historical DNA but my more recent Ancestors were Artisans and Tradespeople. Blacksmiths, Grooms. Waggoners, Animal Husbanders, Weavers. Writers, Builders and all the other Trades of the last 350 years.

    By doing so we avoided all the things that had been wrong in those years.....

    The worst excesses of the Colonial Era, from the Expansion into and continual betrayal of Native America, the madness of King George that led to the War of independence, the African slave Trade and colonisation of the Continent, the subjugation of India, the Arrogance of the Afghan Campaigns, the Australian Genocides, everything that was wrong with France that prompted their Revolution, the Brutalisation of Ireland and the Famine, the devastating put down of the Jacobites, the spectacular Disaster at Balaclava which epitomised everything that was wrong, the Events that caused the Revolution in Russia, the "Royal Disease" -Haemophilia - that ravaged the Romanov, Victorian, German and Spanish Courts and the problems afflicting European Aristocracy in the 20th Century and today.

    Then. for a brief while we revisited it in the early 1960's and the new 'Camelot'.

    So, it's like we know when the Game might be up or gone a bit toxic and let them continue not doing themselves any Favours.

    ReplyDelete
  7. So why aren't there any Corbetts or Mainwarings in our Ancestry?

    The Answer to that is simple ....... our Branch of the Tree and the one that includes those People went off in different directions.

    David 8th Earl of Huntingdon had a Daughter Isobel who married Robert Bruce, 4th Earl of Annandale (ours) the other was his Granddaughter Ada who married Ralph De Brereton (the other one). While ours remained north of the Border and would eventually lead to Robert Bruce 1 of Scotland the other ended up in Cheshire and gradually married into other Landed Families like the Corbetts and Mainwarings.

    Having said that, our line had considerable intermarriages with other Families in England in what would read like a Who's who of Anglo Scottish History.

    So what caused the Error?

    Firstly there is a common entry in Ancestry Charts that conflates one Woman with another. There were 2 Families - one in Cheshire the other in Norfolk called the Cowpers. The Family in Cheshire were a substantial Landowning Family who married into all sorts of similarly positioned Families in the Area. The Family in Norfolk were a modest Family - but some Geneaologists confuse the two. Others try saying that Cowpers from Cheshire moved to East Anglia. One thing about the Cowpers of Norfolk is that that they were part of a Tree that would lead to Abraham Lincoln, but not one that includes all this historical Stuff.

    Secondly, there is a fake Entry in some Charts complete with an elaborate Narrative about a Family who settled in Oyster Bay, Long Island who either were or became very wealthy but lost everything after the War of Independence because they supported the Loyalist Cause.

    Further research told me that they never existed despite their apparent Wealth and standing in the Community, while the actual Person with that name who appears in the chart had a Marriage recorded in the Records of a Parish in East Anglia.

    So what we ended up with before this Research debunked it was a lot of useless Charts showing Lineages with People that either lived elsewhere or didn't exist.

    It was then we concentrated on investigating the Branch of the Tree that started with Isobel of Huntingdon. What was amazing was how it led to some of the most dynamic People in British History.

    So, no diminutive Comedians, Rag and Bone Men from the 1960's or the Sooty and Sweep Show and no rather pompous rotund Bank Managers in charge of the Warmington on Sea Home Guard I'm afraid.

    ReplyDelete